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2 - What is the technology radar? (Marisa Hoenig)

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Inside this episode

Today we are having a discussion with Marisa Hoenig from Thoughtworks about their Technology Radar, An opinionated guide to technology frontiers.

Host: Aaron Rackley

Guest: Marisa Hoenig

Tech Radar:

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Show Transcript

These transcripts where auto generated by Descript. If you see any issues, please do reach out and we can rectify the issues.

Aaron Rackley: [00:00:00] Hi everyone, and welcome to this episode of Tech Leadership Podcast, the podcast where through conversations we unraveled the intricacies of leadership in the tech industry and provide insights on how to become a top performing leader. Today we’re having a discussion with Marissa Hoig from Fort Works, about their technology radar, and opinionated guide to technology frontiers.

If you would like to come on this podcast and have a conversation with me about subject you’re passionate about, please email me@contactleadershipdecoded.com. And with that, let’s get straight into the conversation. Okay. Marissa, thank you for joining me and again, thank you cuz we just started recording this a 10 minutes ago and realized it wasn’t recording.

Let’s start off right at the beginning again. Could you give us an overview of your career, how you got to where you are at Fort Works, how you got to be part of the tech radar? And we’ll see how that goes and let’s hope it record system.

Marisa Hoenig: Yes, I see the recording and all good. You know, this is what happens on podcasts.

We just, we just go with the flow. So [00:01:00] yes. Hi everyone. Uh, my name is Marissa Honig. I am currently the technical assistant to the C T O at ThoughtWorks, which is a global software consultancy. So we work with tons of different companies around the world and. One thing that we produce, it’s our number one asset, and it’s read by over a hundred thousand, oh my gosh, over a hundred thousand people.

It’s called the, such a large number. I know. It’s called the Technology Radar. And I, I’m lucky enough in my role to be the product owner for the tech radar and get to, you know, see the whole process, manage that whole process, and I’m excited to tell you about that today. A little more on my background. I started as a software developer after, you know, going to school for computer science.

So I’ve been at ThoughtWorks for four years now. And, uh, I also host my own podcast in my free time, although we won’t get into that cause I haven’t posted anything recently. So I don’t look it up. And I’m based [00:02:00] outta Denver, Colorado, so I think that’s nice to maybe know where, where I live. Um, but yeah, that’s who I am.

Aaron Rackley: Thank you, and I think we should then definitely address the first question, which is the most important question, which is, what is the technology radar?

Marisa Hoenig: What is it the most important question? What is it? What is this?

Aaron Rackley: What is

Marisa Hoenig: this myth? What is this asset?

Aaron Rackley: I think it’s worth to say that I came across the technology radar through the Fort Works podcast.

Um, I can’t remember wh how long that episode was. I think maybe last month. I can’t remember. Um, and I immediately went away from the podcast, looked out, downloaded it, and I was just in awe on how much information is in this one P D F. So I immediately had to get someone and I’m so happy that you replied on LinkedIn to come on and explain it.

So what is the technology radar for the listeners?

Marisa Hoenig: [00:03:00] Yes. I mean, I’m so glad you found that through the podcast because I was one of the people who was like, yes, we should really do a podcast episode about what it means to build the radar. So if people are listening and you wanna learn more about how we actually build it, definitely go check that out on the ThoughtWorks Technology podcast.

But yeah, it’s a journey. Uh, so. The tech radar is about a seven week process, and as the product owner, I kind of get to manage that whole thing so, What happens is we have over 11,500 employees at ThoughtWorks around the globe, and we do this like call for blips, which blips our individual technologies that people are proposing for the radar.

So basically everyone submits these technologies that they’re using on their projects, and we have these debates about what should make it on, and I’m gonna kind of skip the process right now to get to the overall asset. Yeah. But the overall thing is, you know, it looks like. You know, like a radar, like [00:04:00] it, it’s meant to be almost a pun of like a shipped, like if you’re, um, what’s it like a, like a sailor or something?

Not a sailor, but, um, yeah, like a sonar

Aaron Rackley: radar type

Marisa Hoenig: thing. Yeah, a sonar radar. Thank you. If you have a sonar radar, you see like little blips on the screen and that’s what the technologies are and they, they land in four different rings, so there’s adopt, trial, assess, and hold. And these are, these are our opinions on the different technologies and what you should do on your projects, whether you should, you know, adopt that technology or that technique, or maybe you should really proceed with caution and hold on that one.

And so, It’s a, it’s an opinionated guide to what you should do on your technology projects. And so we usually publish about a hundred blips on a radar and we publish the overall asset twice a year. Uh, so you can look forward to it in the spring and in the fall every year. And I know you mentioned that you read the pdf, it’s [00:05:00] also an interactive.

Radar online so you can like click through and see different things and you can also search for stuff. Uh, but we published both the PDF and the interactive guide and the PDF itself. I know you said it’s a lot of info. It is 47 pages, at least the English version and. Uh, as the product owner, I, I was thinking about this.

I get to read through every blip about five times or so. Mm-hmm. So by the time we publish the radar, I like to say that I have memorized about 70% of the blips, at least the names. I don’t know about the write-ups, but you could probably like quiz me on some of the blips. I’m like, oh yeah, that’s definitely, that’s in this tr uh, this ring or wherever.

Um, And so it’s a huge asset and it’s really this global collaboration of all our consultants to make it and to make it useful for folks like you. No, that,

Aaron Rackley: that’s awesome. Yeah. Um, I, I won’t quiz you. Just Thank you. Put you on the spot. Um, do you know at [00:06:00] what point you decided that this would be something that would be greater for outside people to see?

Because I know there’s a lot of companies out there that are very. I, I dunno the right word, like cagey about what they’re using or how they’re using technology. So I’m very surprised that you guys go into this much detail and let this much detail out there. So how, do you know where that, where, when that decision kind of happened or?

Yeah,

Marisa Hoenig: so the tech radar has been around since 2010, and so that’s about 13 years. I have not been around since then, but. From what I understand, what originally happened is the board that creates the radar, the technology advisory board, they were meant as an advisory group to our C T O, Rebecca Parsons, who I get to work closely with in my role.

And they would meet regularly to like advise on different topics, talk about what’s going on around the world, and interesting technologies would pop up and so they’d be like, oh yeah, are you using. I don’t know, react, are you [00:07:00] using data mesh, whatever. Obviously not those exact things, cuz 2010, I don’t even know if what was around back then.

Um, but they started talking about these things and they realized, hey, like. Maybe we should, you know, make, make some sort of thing to visualize this. Mm-hmm. And I don’t know whose idea the radar itself was, but the radar became the thing where they put the interesting technologies. And it was originally meant as you thought, um, as.

As an internal knowledge sharing tool. Mm-hmm. So originally we were like, oh yeah, like we’ll just use this within ThoughtWorks. People can contribute to it. We can kind of share across the globe. So, you know, people can learn from other projects and as far as I’m aware, during the first radar we. Made it external.

We, we never had it. Only internal. Yeah. So we saw so much value in the radar that we said, Hey, actually, I think someone in marketing was like, Hey, this is really good. We should, we should [00:08:00] publish this. And so we did. We published it. And I actually recently looked back at the first radar. Um, you can, okay, if you go to our website, you can go to the archive and you can see the first radar.

You know, it only had 25 blips. It had the same overall structure, but the design is really old and you know, it has things on there like, iPhone and Android and Oh wow, okay. Something like Java, end of life. Like we thought Java was done in 2010, so there’s like all these different things. Some people would still argue.

Yeah. Yep. Maybe it is. I don’t know. Um, but yeah, you can go back and see, you know, all these snapshots and time to really track, you know. What happened with the tech industry since 2010. And so it’s really cool to just look at it from that perspective. Um, if you’re ever like, huh, I wonder, you know, in 2014 what was going on in tech, you can look at the radar and be like, oh, like that’s what people were using on projects.

That’s how we felt. Um, people should, you know, choose their tech stack, stuff [00:09:00] like that.

Aaron Rackley: Uh, have you, just thinking about that for a moment, have you ever took a moment to look back to see if something you were thinking about panned out correctly or not based on the observations? Yeah,

Marisa Hoenig: the, the tech advisory board definitely has, I think when we had our.

What’s it called? Let’s see, we’re on 28, I think when we had our 25th radar, or like 10 year anniversary. It was one of those, they did a whole like series of, you know, these were our biggest misses and these were the best, uh, predictions that we made, and like all of that stuff. So someone did take a look and gather that information, which I think they found really insightful to see.

Aaron Rackley: Okay, so talking about. The radar in general. Obviously there are quite a few reports that happen every year about the state of technology, you know, that what technology developers are using. You know, [00:10:00] I think GitHub does one. I know that Stack Overflow does one. What do you think makes Fort work stand out?

Cause obviously over a hundred thousand people is a big, big achievement, especially fort. Essentially a list of OB objects. I don’t wanna say it’s horribly, but it’s a list of technology that you guys have thought personally is great for you, for you. So why do you think everyone else is so in depth?

What’s the right word in love with it? Because I, I’m in love with it and I’ve seen so many people on Twitter talking about it, who love it. So what do, what, where do you think that comes from?

Marisa Hoenig: Yeah, I mean, first of all, it’s just so wonderful when I see people excited about the tech radar. Like that’s one of my favorite parts of making it when I, you know, go on Twitter or go on LinkedIn afterwards and I’ll like, I’ll scour the web a bit to see what people are saying.

And it’s always wonderful to see people saying good things [00:11:00] about it. Um, What distinguishes it? That’s a really good question. I think part of it is because we’ve been doing it for so long, I’m not super familiar with a lot of the other reports, but you know, we’re in our 28th volume right now, so 28 times we’ve gotten together and created such an incredible asset that, you know, Tells our story at least of what’s going on in the industry.

And then the other thing is, you know, I mentioned how ThoughtWorks is a global consultancy. So we have people in 18 different countries, we have over 11,000 employees and. This radar is based on everyone’s experiences. So we’re working with, you know, hundreds of clients in various industries, whether it’s, you know, automotive or retail or entertainment or the government.

Like we have so many different projects that when we come together to create the radar, we’re getting technologies from. You [00:12:00] know, all these different industries, all these different companies, and creating an opinion on them and talking about our experiences using those technologies, and so, We’re like, it’s an opinionated guide because we truly talk about how we have experienced it, and there’s very little opportunity for people outside of ThoughtWorks to really influence the radar.

If we put your tool, you know, in assess or hold or adopt, that comes because we truly think that’s where it belongs. And we can’t really be swayed to, you know, change that, or, you know, you can’t pay to put something on the radar. Like we don’t allow that. And so it’s truly based on practitioner’s experiences and we’re kind of, you know, not afraid to say what we think and, you know, The goal is to really help people on their projects and to rev revolutionize the IT industry.

That’s what we truly believe the radar is meant for to, you [00:13:00] know, impact all these projects, all this software being produced. And so if we say, you know, you should. I don’t know, adopt Java. Funny cuz we talked about Java end of life before, but you should adopt Java, let’s say. Um, then, you know, maybe there’s people who read the radar and go, oh, you know, like ThoughtWorks recommended Java.

Like, let’s do that on our projects and we would love that. You know, we’d love to make an influence in that way. And I, I wanna think that people respect that and respect that we truly say what we’re thinking and comes from our experiences using these technologies.

Aaron Rackley: I think having that. Back catalog of just proven kind of experience is perfect for this kind of radar in general.

Um, because I’ve, I’ve worked in many companies that over the years have tried to make their own internal kind of like approaches at seeing what’s out there and how it’s working and stuff like that. But obviously I think one aspect that means it’s never worked [00:14:00] for. Companies I’ve done in the past is because it’s been too small and narrow in the amount of people that have input into it and the experience in those areas.

Whereas having a look at your radar, you can clearly see the amount of effort that has gone into that. And the, as you said, there’s like four different phases that these blips have to go through in order to be, you know, deemed recommendable or, I forget the phrase that you used there, but, So how does a technology progress through the radar and, and.

Through the

Marisa Hoenig: system? Do you mean like when we’re producing a single radar volume? Like how does it go from being proposed to them being published? Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Rackley: I think like how does a blip become a blip, I guess is the Yeah,

Marisa Hoenig: yeah. The storyline, the, the birth of a blip. Um, I said I read them about four times, but they actually go through about eight different reviews, so, Okay, so the first step, and we’ll, I’ll try to keep this as short as possible, but the first [00:15:00] step is, you know, I put out a call for BLIP nominations, basically, and so everyone in ThoughtWorks gets that email and it says, Hey, submit your blip.

Like, tell us your experience about using a technology. What ring do you think it should go to? Go in? Which quadrant should it be in? Because we do have some categories like tools, techniques, languages, and frameworks and platforms. And they submit that to their basically regional, uh, what’s it called? Like, uh, da da da, sorry.

Uh, regional. Like regional liaison between, you know, the entire region that they live in. So you know, like North America or different countries in Europe, or you know, China, India, et cetera. And the technology advisory board that creates the radar. So each of those people on the board collect all these blips and.

They [00:16:00] actually do an initial, you know, going through the blips and deciding which ones they should bring to the meeting. Because after, you know, a few radars of experience, a lot of the people on the board can understand looking at a proposal, whether it’s gonna make it or not, or they’ll remember previous conversations we had where we were like, no, like, This should never be on the radar, for example, and they just won’t bring that to the meeting.

So it goes through this whole process. We usually get around 300 nominations for technologies. Uh, it really depends on, you know, how many people submit things and then I. The people from the board bring it to a face-to-face meeting, which I say face-to-face, but that’s very loose now with Covid. Um, because during the Covid time we did remote meetings and then we did one face-to-face recently, another remote one.

So it, it really depends. But we get together for a whole week of discussions and so, It’s usually about, well, it’s usually five days, [00:17:00] but sometimes the last day we’ll do a few less hours, but the other four days will be about eight hours of discussing technology, which I think for a lot of technologists, that sounds like the best thing ever to just get to sit down and debate different technologies and how you should use them.

And it is such a, It, I’m like humbled to be in that room, even though, you know, I’m taking notes. That’s my main job during that session. But every now and then I’m like, Hey, I’ve used that technology, like I’m gonna participate. So I’ll, I’ll discuss, uh, for that technology. And we go through and our C T O, Rebecca Parsons, she will facilitate the whole thing, which is just, it’s, it’s a magical experience.

Like I don’t think I’ll ever experience someone facilitating so well, and. We go through and everyone discusses different technologies and then ultimately we vote on whether it’s gonna make it on the radar or not. And you know, there’s a lot of other things that go on with, you know, intricacies of bringing some [00:18:00] blips back or.

You know, getting rid of some other ones. But by the end of that week, we end up with around a hundred blips. And then what I like to say is after that, it’s the real fun begins because that’s when I become really busy for six weeks and I manage that writing process. So once we have those final a hundred or so blips, they go into a Trello board and basically anyone in that.

Tech advisory board, they can go in and they pull in a blip and they’ll write it and they’ll do the initial writeup. So that’s coming from the BLIP proposal and then from their experience, from the notes from the meeting. All of that good stuff. And then, you know, I review it and then we also send it out to ThoughtWorks again to review and provide feedback.

So it’s like not only are we allowing our, you know, 11,000 plus employees to propose blips, but they also review them and comment on them and make [00:19:00] suggestions. And every now and then, we’ll even get someone who’s like, I completely disagree. This should not be on the radar. Here’s why. Um, And sometimes we’ll get rid of it at that point, like, we’ll, we’ll get rid of another blip or two.

I think this time around we had about four that we got rid of during the process. And so it’s like this constant feedback loop happening between the tech advisory board, me and all of ThoughtWorks. And so it goes through, That review and then the person reviews again, and then it goes through copy editing, and then like I review, they review, and then eventually we’re like, okay, cool.

It’s ready to be published. And then we also translate the radar into Spanish, Portuguese, and Chinese. And so I also make sure that whole process gets managed and we get volunteers across the company to be a part of that and to translate it into their language. So, Yeah, it’s this whole thing going on.

And then at the end, you know, we have a designer who makes [00:20:00] the PDF and then I also work with our website team to get the website version published, and then we have like a big kickoff call and we say it’s out there and everyone gets to read it.

Aaron Rackley: I hope you also have a big party at the end because that sounds like so much work and a lot of work.

Um, yeah, I think I, yeah, for me it’s like, it, it’s really great because obviously one of the hardest things I find generally is trying to keep up with technology. Especially it’s changing every year and it’s, and I think it’s getting rapidly more. Worse as years go on in terms of amount of frameworks that appear, the amount of, you know, other products that are ching up, like AI, as you said, is a thing that’s appearing, but then there’s like 40 new products a week that are to do with ai.

So having things like this in place is, I think very important. And this is why I wanted to talk about in general for [00:21:00] the podcast, is because I think as a tech technology leadership, It’s hard to keep track of this data. So having this tour available to you is, I think vital. So I guess the question that that leads to is like, you’ve got this radar now and you, you’ve gone through this very immense seven week period of getting it prepared and out to the people.

So how do Fort Works, and I guess by extension everyone else, how do you think that the best way to use this information that you are. You’re providing?

Marisa Hoenig: Yeah. I think, you know, the challenge you mentioned with staying up to date on technology, the radar is the perfect solution for that. I know I’m biased because I work on it, but it truly is the perfect solution for that.

Just because, you know, we will literally, you know, wrap it up for you like a present twice a year and you can read it and see what’s going on in the industry. Um, so like, [00:22:00] That’s one of the ways, just keeping up to date with it. Reading it. We do have, you know, a newsletter that we’ll send out when it’s published and you can subscribe to that if you wanna know when it’s published.

But I think, you know, I’ve had experience as a tech lead before and when the radar comes out, that’s a really good way to. Uh, take an analysis of what your tech stack looks like. So you know, you’re on a project, maybe you’re using 10 different technologies. If you read the radar and you’re like, oh, actually, like they said you should put this thing on hold, or they really recommend this alternative, maybe we should consider that, you know, if we’re having issues with that technology on our project.

So it’s a good way to just like, Learn about that. And the other thing is with techniques, ho honestly, techniques is my favorite quadrant because I feel like it’s something that almost anyone can learn something from, like, you know, tools, platforms, languages, and frameworks. Often those are very specific [00:23:00] to, you know, a data project or a front end project, et cetera.

They’re great. But I love techniques because I think. There are so many things to learn just from that quadrant about how you are building software and how, you know, you’re talking to stakeholders or, um, I don’t know, you’re managing your people on your team and so like if you take nothing else away from the radar, it’s say, look at the techniques quadrant.

The other thing is looking at blips in adopt and hold. Those are usually, you know, our strongest opinions about something, whether we’re like, Hey, like. You probably shouldn’t use this, or actually you really should use this. You should really consider this if you have the use case for it. And the other thing, like if you’re doing a quick skim, is to look at the themes on the radar.

So, uh, I believe that’s in the beginning part of the pdf, and then it’s further down the page on the main homepage. And these are. Uh, from the [00:24:00] conversation that week. Long conversation, if things keep popping up, like for example, one of our themes this time is called accessible accessibility because we had so many blips submitted about accessibility, so everyone in our board was like, Huh.

There must be, you know, something new going on in accessibility land. Like there’s all these new tools happening. It’s really, you know, it’s more accessible or it’s easier to implement accessibility these days. And so we put out a theme based on getting, you know, five to 10 blips of a similar topic. And so that’s what you’ll see across all the themes.

And so that’s often a really good thing to pay attention to, just to influence like, You know, how, how you’re building that software or running your project. Um, and then I also think, you know, using the radar to determine your tech stack. When I was a tech lead, I did a greenfield project, and when we were considering our tech stack, we’d go, oh, you [00:25:00] know, what did the radar say about it?

Like, Did we have good experience with this, did we not? And that was really helpful when you’re starting from scratch, especially because you might not know, you know, what technology should be we be using, but the tech radar kind of lays it out really well for you.

Aaron Rackley: Yeah. So like as, I think as you said there, like you, there was some key trends that pop up, um, different times, um, in different areas.

So is there like a key trend that you could, I, obviously I’ve read 28, but is there a key trend that you could, you could see in that, in this, in this one, after reading all 300 proposals?

Marisa Hoenig: Oh, that’s, that’s a good question. I think. The main thing I noticed, and this might just be because you know, there’s a lot of hype around it recently, is around, you know, generative ai.

We did get a lot of proposals around generative ai. You know, whether it’s just chatty b t or GitHub co-pilot, but there’s all these [00:26:00] other open source tools that we often get proposed for the radar, and most of these. You know, no one has production experience or they’re working on it on a project or a side project or whatever.

Mm-hmm. But we see these things pop up because of all the hype around it. And you know, we try not to give into the hype at ThoughtWorks, but we do, you know, wanna speak on it if we have things to share. So there was actually a really good article that came out of the. Um, the like face-to-face discussion for the radar about l l m prompting.

So large language models, how do you, you know, prompt them to create good code and like, what’s that process you should go about? Um, this was published on Martin fowler.com. Martin Fowler is our chief scientist and he’s on the tech radar. He was also part of the Agile manifesto, which like, by the way, um, I don’t know, Martin might listen to this, but.

It’s so bizarre to, you know, learn about the Agile manifesto in [00:27:00] college, you know, only like five years ago and then to sit at dinner with Martin Fowler on my right and like to realize that in the moment. But anyway, uh, there’s a really good article, uh, maybe you can link it in the show notes. I can send you the link, but yeah, hundred percent.

It’s. Really helpful. Cool. It’s really helpful for just understanding how to do that when we’re so early in this generative AI age of technology. So it’s like things like that, um, have come out of the radar based on a lot of people submitting

Aaron Rackley: blips on that. Yeah, no, that, that’s super interesting. And yeah, I think I’d be in awe too if I was sitting at that dinner table after learning it too.

Um, now obviously I, I listened to the podcast that you guys. Um, released, which goes into a lot more in depth on the process and all that kind of stuff. So I definitely recommend everyone to go and read it. And I know that on the website it’s. But it’s very intuitive of all the information that’s available.

And as you said, it’s very [00:28:00] interactive. But also the thing that I liked on it is that you give the framework of how to build your own radar. Would you wanna talk about that for a moment?

Marisa Hoenig: Yeah, absolutely. So I. The Build Your Own Radar tool is actually an open source tool that we have. And so you can find it on GitHub, and we also have a hosted site where you can basically upload your own CSV file or Google Sheets file, whatever, and you can generate your own radar.

And so it’s built in the same way that our radar is built, you know, with the same quadrants, the same rings, and. I think this tool is really impactful because if you’re on a project and you’re like, Hey, like I really enjoy the radar, but um, you know, how do I really relate it to my own project? And so I actually highly recommend, you know, tech leads or anyone really leading some sort of team.

Maybe engineering managers consider using this tool because it’s helpful just to get an idea of. [00:29:00] How does the team feel about the different technologies that you’re using? What are the techniques that we’re doing that maybe we don’t realize we’re doing, but like writing it down will make us go, oh, okay.

Like that’s how we’re approaching this software. That’s how we do C I C D, or whatever it is. And I think that’s a really helpful source of truth, almost like an adr, you know, an architecture decision record to be like. This is what people who are onboarding can look at. And this is what we can revisit from time to do, from time to time to really be, um, Intentional about what technology we use and whether we change in, how, you know, how our tech debt is looking, all things like that.

And so if you use our tool, you can kind of integrate it into your own system, whether you’re using like, you know, backstage as, um, a portal or Confluence or something. And you can just use that on your team to [00:30:00] keep everyone informed. So I highly recommend checking it out. It’s at radar.thoughtworks.com and you can just use it for your own project.

Aaron Rackley: Yeah, no, I will definitely 100% be getting this set up at my company, even just internally through like front end first of all, and then try and expand it out. Cuz I think it’s, as you say, a great way for us to all just get on the same path of understanding. But before, um, I say goodbye, um, because I feel like I I will go on for hours.

Um, is, I’m gonna be asking everyone, um, the same question at the end of the podcast, which is if you could recommend one book to anyone, and the book doesn’t have to be tech basic, you know, it’s like a desert island kind of book. Which one book would you recommend? Oh

Marisa Hoenig: man, I, oh, it’s a good question. I’m pulling up my like, good reads right now to be like, okay, [00:31:00] what do I, um, what are some of my favorite books?

Um,

okay. I mean, so. I’m gonna, I’m gonna mention two, but one, I’m only just gonna mention briefly, of course, atomic Habits is one of the, like, probably one of my favorite books ever and I highly recommend that, but I feel like that’s a very typical response. So I’m gonna give you a different book. Um, I highly recommend.

Uh, educated by Tara Westover, it’s, um, a autobiography and goes through her life with, um, kind of an unconventional childhood, like a very sheltered childhood and basically learning. Mm-hmm. Um, as she got educated through schooling, uh, learning kind of like what the world is like and learning about her past and her family and stuff.

It’s a really good book. I think I wanna read it again, but. That, that would be a book I think everyone should read.

Aaron Rackley: Definitely. Okay. I would definitely add that one to my list because I’m basically adding [00:32:00] every book that, um, people recommend onto my Amazon list to, to read through. Um, and I recommend everyone else do the same thing.

Amazing. Expand your horizons as they say. I always end up finding that I’ll read a book that I’d never have thought of reading before, or a genre that I’ve never delved into, so before. I say goodbye, and obviously it’s been amazing having you here and I know I kind of abruptly end ending it and it, it feels horrible to stop because I’m just so enjoying this conversation around the tech radar and I’m definitely gonna have to carry this conversation on via email or something.

Um, but, um, if anyone else out there is interested in the radar and or, you know, wants to look at the radar where. Where can they find you and the radar

Marisa Hoenig: online? Yeah, I mean, this has been wonderful and if you ever wanna do a part two, I’m very happy to come back on the podcast or you know, we can chat via email and everything.

But yeah, if people wanna reach out to me, you can find me, you [00:33:00] know, on LinkedIn, on Twitter, um, I think I have, I don’t know, GitHub, you can’t really message on GitHub, but you can find me all of my social medias at Marissa Honig, that’s M A R i S A H O E N I G. And if you’re interested in more about the radar, I recommend going to thoughtworks.com/radar.

That’s where you’ll find, you know, the PDF and the interactive website that we talked about. And we also have, you know, thought work socials at. ThoughtWorks. Um, and yeah, you can also, you know, follow the company on LinkedIn or anywhere else. You can probably just Google us and you’ll find us. But yeah, definitely follow up.

If you have any questions about the radar or you know, wanna talk to me, I’m very happy to chat with people.

Aaron Rackley: Awesome. Yeah, we’ll definitely get you for a part two at some point, I imagine. I hope you enjoyed this conversation, and please do remember to subscribe to this podcast on your favorite player and stay tuned for upcoming episodes.

If you’d like [00:34:00] to come on and have a conversation with me about subjects you are passionate about, please send an email to me at contact tech leadership coded.com and I’ll see you in the next episode. Bye for now.[00:35:00] [00:36:00] [00:37:00] [00:38:00] [00:39:00]